The Molecule of More: How a Single Chemical in Your Brain Drives Love, Sex, and Creativity with Daniel Z. Lieberman
Why are we obsessed with the thing as we want – only to be bored when we get them?
Why is addiction perfectly logical to an addict?
Why does love change so quickly from passion to indifference?
Why are some people, die-hard liberals and others hardcore conservatives?
Why are we always hopeful for solutions even in the darkest times—and so good at figuring them out?
The answer is found in a single chemical in your brain: dopamine.
Dopamine ensured the survival of early man.
Thousands of years later, it is the source of our most basic behavioUrs and cultural ideas—and progress itself.
Dopamine is the chemical of desire that always asks for more—more stuff, more stimulation, more surprises.
In pursuit of these things, it is undeterred by emotion, fear, or morality.
We welcome the author of “The Molecule of More: How a Single Chemical in Your Brain Drives Love, Sex, and Creativity—and will Determine the Fate of the Human Race.” Daniel Z. Lieberman
More about Daniel here:
[0:13] Why are we obsessed with the things we want only to get bored when we get them why is addiction perfectly logical to another.
[0:22] Why does love change so quickly from passion to indifference where some people die hard liberal is another hardcore conservatives.
[0:30] Where we always hope for solutions even in the darkest times the answer is found in a single chemical in your brain don’t for me.
[0:39] Help me ensure the survival of early man i was of years later it is the source of most basic behavior and cultural ideas on progress itself.
Tell me the source of every yards that little bit of biology that makes it is business professional sacrifice everything in pursuit of success.
What are the trains status fitzpats to risk it all for the thrill of someone new.
[1:02] Sleep on it is where we see can succeed that is why we discover and prosper yes at the same time it is why we gamble and squandered.
[1:12] Women’s perspective it’s not having that matters it’s getting something anything that’s new.
[1:18] From this understanding the difference between processing something vs anticipating we can understand in a revolutionary new way.
We behave as we do in love business addiction politics religion and we can even predict those behaviors in yourself and others.
[1:35] We welcome the author of the molecule of more.
How is single chemical in your brain is love sex and creativity and will determine the fate of the human race daniel and welcome to the show.
Jackson having me and i told a great way to start is the up versus down idea contact to lies by the line you using the block.
[1:57] In the beginning god created the heavens and the earth i think that that really sets the stage for,
play rather revolution no way of understanding the brain and that is that it provides the world between earth and not have enough
explain what that means think about the space in two ways
what part of space is that which is within arms reach
anything with your arms ridgeway call in the personal and definitely stuff that we own
we control we enjoyed soon as we can so that it’s your clothing answer cell phone and the hamburger that you’re reading these things to you have
right here right now that’s what you see when you look down.
[2:45] When you look up on the other hand you looking out into the extra personal space that is space is behind your arms reach and that contains things that you don’t have
and if you need it you need to go out and get it it’s going to take work.
Ashford is your baby planning and when you do get it it’s going to happen in the future so the concept of up and is associated with things that are far away required effort and planning to get
add will happen in the future now you wanna ask yourself why is it that the brain divide the world into up and down
into the personal and the extra personal and it’s really quite simple and that is that you are evolutionary ancestors the comments saying if you have heard you don’t could very easily become if you have it
will your dad.
[3:43] Survival point if you there is a fundamental difference between resources what you have and resources which u doubt and the brain evolved the deal with that reality.
I’m looking to go much deeper into love the concept she discussed here before we deep dive into the active document
i’m gonna be useful to give a quick history of the discovery which one so long ago and have an issue with seeing a simple away
for the body to produce a chemical called friend but then scientists began to observe strange things yes that’s right not a production is.
A brain chemical called a nerd transmitters like me in your life was sunday’s your transmitters like sharon stone and and and and kenapa noise
originally was taught that don’t mean only roll was a pre cursor coming call to french
which is probably best start of the fight or flight transmitter so the brains version of adrenaline.
Then it began to realize that they actually influences a fairly wide variety of behaviors and it’s it’s so potent that often times it can overcome
are you are free well.
[5:00] No they saw that drugs of abuse seem to activate.
Dopeher me more than any other experience.
Add following up that line of thought id of dopeher me and came to be associated with the pleasure chemical.
And the pathways that don’t mean take to the brain were no nasty rewards circuit and a lot of people are friendly was helping mean in that context as the reward chemical or the pleasure chemical.
[5:31] Turns out that actually not correct it turns out that it’s a little bit more complex and a lot more powerful
because don’t be mean isn’t really about the pleasure of enjoying things
dopeher me it’s about the pleasure of anticipating things anticipating things that you don’t have now
add that to be called the books that molecule of march because we can never be satisfied and in fact stimulating dopeher mean
giving you that hope of something new something more actually produces bought that sucks that you even less satisfied then you started out
for patient of mine who is struggling with cocaine addiction told me that when he ignored it a line of cocaine he felt like a new man and the first thing that you man want it,
what’s another line of cocaine.
Before we get in to drugs because you talk about addiction deeply and the whole chapters dedicated to them that would be really helpful for people to understand.
What is let’s start the way you do in the book and talk about loving to mention this in the intro that it often feels like it fades for people and this is because of dopeher me.
[6:43] And i thought we’d explored the initial hires the initial obsession and illusion
what hear you talk about experimentation with monkeys and rats on wolfram schultz yes show
just as the brain divide the world into two spaces up and down the personal and extra personal
weekend divided love into two phases the first days passionate love and lots is being driven by dopeher me the most of us know that feels like it may be the most wonderful experience that most human beings have
i feel like we are reborn we feel like the world is full of sparkly pixie dust and that everything has changed and will never be the same
and it’s about the future it’s about a better world a better life without people love it its about more
we want to do is spend more time with this amazing person we falling in love with but anticipation excitement creativity all kinds of wonderful wonderful things
the problem is though that every woman should we experience is time limited
and the reason is that eventually the future becomes the president.
Eventually becomes dental and shout.
[8:05] We get to the point where i no longer anticipating our new life with this amazing person that we found
what is living out life with this amazing person and it turns off and other chemicals are poised to take over the world chemicals that are
dial what we have not what we want and these things like oxid ocean and you can have been annoyed and door center
add daily to send the second face of love and that’s called comparing it love it love it doesn’t have the life-changing excitement and passionate love
but it also be a very wonderful thing rather than being exciting at the upper terrace.
[8:51] Feeling like were brand new world its deeply satisfying it leads to a state of contentment their is something truly wonderful about having another person’s life
three plant wine with euro but you’ve gotta look out for the change,
the passion of age of love lasts twelve to eighteen months and when it goes away
alot of people develop the feeling that your no longer in love and from many people especially people who tend to organize their lives around generating government stimulation
i think the relationship is over and they bring it to a halt
but it’s not it’s just entering a new phase a more in during facial products and more mature phase interface has potential to give us happiness and fulfillment
for a much longer period of time that maintenance able to do so
what is the ways that we moved from the idea of being a pleasure molecule could help me being an adult
future oriented molecule what’s with a manny wolfram schultz
dewayne experiment with monkeys is what you did you have some monkeys any put two boxes in front of them.
One box contained a great and was randomly put it they would never know.
[10:16] Which one was and when they opened the box that contains the grape that surprisingly got a little burst of dopeher me.
Help connecting you did what she had to lights and the lights with signal which box the great was ever.
But in the beginning the monkeys didn’t know what the code was so wonderful lights would go off and the monkeys would randomly open a box sometimes they get it right sometimes they wouldn’t
when they got it right they got a search now eventually they figured out the single
show that every time the light came on they reached for the correct box and when that happened no longer got a joke for me in search when they opened the box.
[11:06] Take out the door for me when the light went off
and is that the response to the unexpected response the opportunity for more reward more resources and that was the light once the light.
Came over and the possibility of a great.
Became the reality of the great things new exactly where it was and when i opened the box and reach the great there was no surprise the technical term for his reward prediction error we get dopeher me
when we make a prediction about the kind of reward that’s in our future and it turns out we’re all
the reward is greater than we expected so monkey sitting around all the sudden the light goes off monkey didn’t expect that light to go off that to reward prediction error.
What will you open up the box is already predicting there’s going to be a grape in there and she finds the grave drawer prediction arya zero.
There’s no more details for me so its not about the pleasure of gratification.
It’s about the possibility of getting something more something i expected.
This these for so many addictions so many ways we think we’re always looking for morning but there’s a piece i find phenomenal where you talk to bed.
How couples have sex less frequently it has herbs so of energy love evolved into compassionate patience and love the colors.
[12:35] This makes and sends an investor pricing suppress the release of testosterone in a similar way to suppress the release of the television on bus to pricing.
[12:45] Which helps explain why man with naturally quantities of testosterone in their blood or less likely to marry i thought that was fascinating.
Yeah it’s kind of a deep dive into the hormones of reproduction and marriage oxid when is he coming in terms of us making
deep long lasting bonds with another person
you know what’s funny about éxitos en from studying very falls please read durable animals
that come in basically two kinds one kind has oxid ocean and pools make for life the other kind doesn’t
add their promised us they will reproduce with whatever partner is available
add what’s latest found out was they took their promises us.
Sorry falls injected them with éxitos en.
[13:39] Favorite justin the temptation.
Make with other available partners and stuff one just like he wants were born with high levels of the towson
show it as from the opposite testosterone is the hormone of my call and discriminated sexual desire and actually both men and women.
Women produce testosterone to drive there sexual desire and wanted hi there interested in having sex period not necessarily with any specific partners
obviously that’s not right within a committed relationship and so you can get this oppositional talk of war between the two of them has thrown surprises oxid ocean
in order to anchorage promise you its behavior and oxid ocean surprises testosterone in order to encourage fidelity to a single date
my code is fascinating to bring a slip further why we react to orgasm studies show that would feel exceptions the brands response to orgasm with the same.
Domain was turned off and he was turned on so sure how to open.
The most important part of sex probably his prior to the main event it send the conquest
it’s the thrill of the chase you say you’re waiting imagined object of desire turns into a real person.
When help is replaced with possession the role of dopamine comes to an end.
[15:04] Yeah you know i treat a patient once she had a problem that’s not all uncommon and that is that
she had lots of one night stands
but he couldn’t establish a long term relationship and he knew that was a problem that was interfering with his ability to have happy satisfying life so week and it made shit something about that
the problem is that he wants you want to use a tractor to he would pursue hundred
she would get her to agree to have sex have sex with are unable to completely lose interest in her and that was a problem with his mean.
[15:45] Interaction with he’s here now transmitters all he wanted was goldman sachs thrill as soon as he possessed in the beginning but having sex with her.
Help me turned off because she was no longer a possibility she was a reality.
Don’t me doesn’t respond to reality only the possibility that it’s your thing so it started out that he wanted to use these women.
You want to take the moment have sex with them.
[16:13] Really that’s not what i wanted and was excited about the possibility so eventually once she got them into his apartment the conquest was complete i no longer want to have sex with me
is that a pull back again one state agreed to go home without the possibility was complete
edit as you’d lose sexual desire so we got to the point where he was struggling with if its because she was no longer able to become a woman when dopeher me list no longer involved.
Its addiction you stylists in the book they are all addictions in the same boat lets get into drugs and talk about addiction.
I am to set this up you share some biology with them so olympic park way yosemite called the ultimate desire circle and hear you tell us.
The sensation of wanting is not a choice you make it a reaction to the things you encounter.
[17:06] You give an example of many of us would appreciate any say its designer circuit that’s activated when you see a plate of donuts on the table and it’s activated now but i need.
What were their presence of something attractive from an evolutionary or life sustaining standpoint that is at the moment such a thing as seen
the circuit is activated weather you wanted,
or nah what you’re hungry or not yes it in the book we discussed to death in pathways in the brain.
[17:34] The first one is the michelle in causeway which we call the desire pathway this is a pathway that you desire and susie awesome
energy perseverance and those kinds of things so we start out by looking at the positive functions of this pathway so.
Imagine it feels to work on the project you are excited about and compare that working on a project that you just have to do
you really dont care about so we’re excited i can’t wait to get it you’re full of energy
time flies by brings out the best in you and if it makes you feel excited
motivated you work long hours even forgot things like meals and showers.
Show engrossed with what you’re doing you compare that to doing something just because you have to do if let’s say,
writing report for example
you’re working out you look for any excuse to do something else check email check social media maybe even clean your kitchen cupboards because you have the desire pathway
wishing you all the best takeaway has the potential to do wonderful things in our lives by.
[18:53] We will control it and what also is a potential to destroy our lives so.
If your bosses work to lsu how u gonna do this project you have no control over whether it’s going to make you excited for boards
if you are shit plate of donuts as you pointed out you probably know that you should stay away from that plate of donuts but you have no control over whether or not you want it that something that your biology
is german for you simply because that’s how evolution why are they
the most successful at essentially staying alive and reproduces
so when are we desire circuit goes off effects of wine with our conscious goals
it’s gonna give a super powers almost however if it supposed to vishal girl suggest staying healthy and avoiding doughnuts it’s actually going to.
Diminish our ability to make three choices it’s kinda diminish our free well as human beings
i love you referring buyers remorse because this is another thing we’re always looking to forward to buy self consumerism is based on desk.
[20:05] What if we made a wise purchase it’s possible that strong hating and gratification will make up for the loss of the double mean thrill of getting something new.
That’s right and you know
gr what a few weeks about pirates for more scifi look it up on wikipedia as you can see them what are the things that mike long and i my co are proud of is that we’re the first ones come up with a biochemical explanation for buyer’s remorse involving dopeher me
add that is what you are anticipating a purchase at a new car a new tv and new cellphone
a new pair of shoes dont me detective add mean it’s making excited and susie ass tickets whispering in your ear when you got your life is going to be so much better.
[20:50] What’s you got it though it goes from the future the project it goes from up to down and dog me no longer process those things so it shut off
add all the shopping list thing that was this magical wonderful things gonna change your life it’s no longer creating any of those feelings and that’s when bars for morse
snapchat a new message on my god why did i spend all this money.
I’m not enjoying this new last matches anticipated.
I’m gonna make so much sense for people but the reason i actually broke that in i was talking medication.
Is because i live in arlington are the weather be like here nog is associated with alcohol.
I find it important to share the fascinating on set of actions the fast and the rise you know so for example if i drink.
[21:39] Alcohol really really quickly
i’ll get it much quicker and that’s actually better than drawing it out over long periods hi because it leads to more craving than the road.
Yes that’s right
would you drink alcohol a lot of different things are going on in your brain i think i think were both with its what we call intoxication alcohol is a drug
add one more intoxicated we get tired we become incorporated we may stumble slow are speeds islands very true.
[22:13] That’s one thing that happens but that’s not what responsible for the pleasure
the pleasure is associated with helping me release all addictive drugs marijuana cocaine alcohol heroin.
All of them cause yoga mean release and one of the funniest things is that the more rapidly.
Did drugs concentration goes up and your blood stream the more intoxicated you become i firmly crossed this one is a medical student,
friend of mine which going out and she said hey let’s go out and drink cocktails i always have so much more fun drink cocktails then when i drink beer.
She’s a medical reason for that i just medical student nothing much but don’t mean and i said no your just imagining it
because the active ingredient is alcohol and alcohol is alcohol there’s no difference well it turns out there is a difference because mix drinks,
return to drink a lot faster also the sweet doing shots.
[23:16] This is a big alcohol level in your brain go out much faster and it still rate
the about the trigger still for me and so when people start drinking
is sherry rapid going up in their blood stream and they will feel natalie intoxicated feel hi become talkative still wanna dance on the bar before energy after awhile it changes.
Add g great levels off
don’t mean girls down intoxication goes on in smart people try to recap that initial energy and pleasure by doing more shots drinking lots lots more and as we all know
that generally ends badly,
i’m here you tell us free sample cocaine so popular drug predicting times of economic appointments which began at the moment i need information about the difference between crack and cocaine in the same context is alcohol.
[24:10] Yes that’s right one windshield cracked courses smoking cocaine and one would think that since its the same drug it should be the same effect
what is a crock is much more addictive than cocaine and the reasons which getting your body
when you snort powder cocain euros or being rude and nasal mucus.
That’s the light skin inside the nose is red because of.
What does hell’s and can get in to the app blood vessels so there is not much room.
There’s free lil surface area.
By contrast when you smoke crack cocaine using the service area of your loan which is about half the size of a tennis skort and so you get lots and lots of drug in your body
hey rapidly you get that huge rise to happen very quickly and you get a lot more gentle for me.
Nashville needs the addiction is the release.
Ring this even further to prescription drugs if they can over stimulated been released as you tell us for example with parkinson’s medication which involves.
No takin gambling hyper sexuality and taking.
[25:23] Yo which are kind of bizarre medications so parkinson’s disease is an ls in which a part of the brain called a substantially,
manufacture still put me in
stop working properly and so doctors didnt replace the door because in addition to things like plus share and anticipation it’s also important for muscle movements and people parkinson’s because stephen.
Expensive tremor sweep gotta replace the dopeher me now.
Medications used to treat parkinson’s disease don’t cause pleasure.
[25:58] The way that drugs of abuse to
what day do pushed me and i can already exact percentage by think about one five four one six experience the kind of it,
composed behavior you might expect with to much for me such as.
Breakfast gambling addiction to sax and all of those kinds of things do we consume homemade dog and addiction it’s not ugly just prescription drugs
that we get addicted to change your behavior so its also things like gaming and events in your word prediction error and this is actually building the games are you saying i owe on this show as well it’s not like
the gaming companies around here to get people hope it’s just a side affect of actually playing games i feel reassured your work on this.
Yo the whole idea of video games being addictive is controversial
and i think that the reason why it’s controversial is because it generally doesn’t happen two adults
human brain is not fully developed until we reach our early twenties.
[27:07] Show when young people play video games they don’t have the same level of judgement
and the same level of restraint that adults two i don’t forget the state saying the kids can get addicted to video games so that’s that’s nonsense i’m never felt that way about video games but it does happen with children.
No i’m going to disagree with you in terms of the makers of video games not trying to make some addictive.
Because i think they do when we play video games the makers are collecting.
All kinds of data that we producer looking at our interactions they’re looking at how long we play there looking at what’s making a stop
and they’re constantly tweaking constantly upgrading finding ways to make play longer and longer doubt they may not be thinking about dopeher mean
what they are thinking about it just maximizing the amount of time.
[28:07] You spend with her game just to them that translate into dollars and cents so i think in some ways that they’re using this incredibly powerful technology to take advantage of the order developed brains of young people
and i’m not sure its entirely unethical what they’re doing.
When do the things that i thought was a friend this is really fascinating was even still flight for example in the game you treasure chests can you resend they didn’t experiment with.
We need to put a little reward and every one of them it was like the reward prediction earlier in the day change this to to help people behind like you said.
Yes that’s right these random ice trials where they allowed people to achieve their goals with five treasure chests seven hundred plus nine eleven twelve to figure out
what would make people frustrated and make people perceive your
show me know exactly the number keeps you hooked that i wouldn’t be surprised if currently
there actually individualisé and this flight player there no longer doing it.
Which this whole more about you
can you sing a i get you as possible you know in many ways this is not.
[29:23] All that different from what las vegas casinos do it’s all about war predictions are you open up the treasure chest
it’s gonna be a surprise just like in the handel on a slot machine or rolling the dice in a game of craps and
recently the videogame companies actually became very much like las vegas with blue boxes so you possibly have to pay real money for it just hunting through it in the video game world you real money for it
open it up in new hope you get what you want a powerful weapon or some other too old to make you more successful in the game
thank shirts were spending hundreds even thousands of dollars of their parents money because they could not stop lying this loot boxes and i believe that finally congress had to step in and password regulations limiting
these gambling opportunities for young children when they lost things on gaming is.
[30:22] They’ve also talked and that hating and chemical so accident wasn’t examples so this whole idea of making gaming social
is there a real diamond for parents we talked about on the show before because.
You want your kids to socialize and connect with friends and have something to talk about a random virtual water cooler but at the same time we don’t want to get them addicted.
Yes that’s right.
Hearing that he pleasures are generally safe the pleasures to get there about contentment and satisfaction so it’s easy to stop being so clever enough i feel great next thing.
[30:56] Things like beauty which received video games or beautiful
socializing emotions this role here right now so these are good things.
[31:09] Set the degrees that the support the addictions making how to be twisted into something that is not so very good,
let’s talk about some of the solutions because one of her just i just avoided the challenges which there are many can you tell.
[31:24] What kind of circuit in the brain is powerful enough to post op mean you tell us the double room in itself
is the antidote to dopeher me it’s one of the adults to put me in that’s right so we’ve been talking about the desire she’ll get another circuit
it’s cold me so critical circuit stock in the same place as the market
hello from loads are where we are able to use judgment.
Were able to think abstract were able to maximise our long-term benefit rather than just our short-term benefits so
we call this circuit in the book thief control circuit so the desire circuit says he,
the control circuit can say well that may feel good for about sixty seconds.
Lockdown the line to next months or next year it’s gonna be helping me at the control circuit says no but its important to note that even though
the control circuit and the desire circuit can act in opposition to each other they’re goal is the same.
And that is to maximize the resources it’s just that the control circuit is looking are there in the future and it’s not using
primitive crazy king of positivity as the desire circuit does.
You are more sophisticated tools like planning and abstract thinking.
[32:49] Can you say the control circuit is the source of imagination and let the spirit of the future to see the consequences of the decisions we might make right now and there still has to choose which future we prefer.
Yeah yeah if we go back to the party personal extra personal when we went some things in our personal space where he can interact with you with all sorts of our senses
ask move to the extra personal and gets farther and farther away this century modalities drop off one by one we lose the ability to touch it to taste it
smell hear it
i can finally see it so what something is so far.
Can the extra a personal space that we cannot even hear it,
how do we perceive as well the answer is we proceed with our imagination
add the amazing things about the human brain is it hand create things
i have no real existence events to imagination and one of the things it allows to do if something called mental time travel to project ourselves into the future to imagine.
What various futures might be like at the choose the one that maximize future resources making me happy.
Show the examples i gave i want to travel from washington dc to new york city.
[34:15] I can take the bus which is very cheap i can take the train which is very comfortable or i could fly which is the fastest i ever land a siding me to do.
Find travel bag been on the bus and what that will lead to same with the train in the airplane and bye.
Seriously experiencing these different futures enable me to make the best choice anyone involved in any creative pursuit of audience would be like the snows
we need to nabi to bring back to life and new devote a whole section of the book to study in here don’t mean is on hand to deliver.
Can you share with us here to bring it to life the case of the resolute rats.
[34:57] Yes that’s right so one of the important roles of designers circuit is to keep our noses to the grind stone so to speak as any entrepreneur knows you get a great idea
yes it does it was really hard is bring it into reality into fruition.
[35:16] Show the wanted to look at the role of dopeher me in city and the way you study ten at the rat is by giving them a lever pushing
task in return for rewards.
Food outlets to get around the caged bird and it’s gonna push
the lever a certain number of times in order to get the rewards if you got the reward with one push you don’t need any task to it all
raise that to four eight sixteen thirty to sixty four you gonna need more and more study
and we just wanted to find out if that would also require large amounts of dope on me so what they did is the truck a bunch of rats
divide them into two groups random late and use that you’re talking to destroy development circuits in one of the rats on the negative this chasity task the first thing that gave more award
only one push.
[36:18] What they found was that deliver pressing was the same in both groups of rats and what that showed them was that.
The rash the adults or kids destroyed by then your accent.
Still enjoyed the food is um they would press a button not get them it show them that they were pleasurable.
[36:41] When is jordan increasing the amount of work however.
What they found was with the internet routes you had normal don’t beat circuits would push more and more and more and more more than one time per second as a requirement
what’s up where is the rats would have been destroyed,
when requirement when update pushed a little bit more when i even more maybe a little bit more even more basically gave.
[37:11] And we compared this rats to basement dwelling pot smokers
they are very happy to take whatever comes along that you’re not gonna go out there and chase it down in the springs still self efficacy.
[37:26] Or more like you to stick with is if you see that you’re capable of doing
here i thought of cocaine and veterans and the way people use these for example they professions to boost self efficacy.
And also explains the epidemic of abuse of ADHD meds in the us like ritalin and adderall which students for example.
Yes that’s right a lot of students believe that they perform better.
When they are using drugs for attention deficit disorder like ritalin and adderall and there’s no question that is absolutely true.
For people who have a valid diagnosis of attention deficit disorder.
What do not the ones abusing and it’s the people who do not have attention deficit disorder who are abusing it.
Thinking it’s helping and perform better but studies show it’s not what it still working.
It’s making it easier for them to do the work can i compare to taking the escalator rather than the stairs they can right the papers sticking sit down with a box without quite as much as using the stimulate
medications the quality of the paper or the score of the getting the exam are no better than people who are not using this trial now the problem.
Which taking the escalator instead of the stairs is it makes your legs weak.
[38:47] And the problem with using adhd drugs when you dont really have the LS is it over time it makes your willpower week
you feel the more you need this
actually dangerous drug in order to do anything and you just get actually of your own natural nasa let’s talk about it because you talk about this in the book and you talk about how its name balance of dopamine the century.
It was adhd has problems in a number of domains wonder name is that it’s hard for them to focus and concentrate on the things that
controlled ultimate dies is it shot out things that are not relevant to what were doing let me give you a very extreme example have you ever been reading something that you are so interested in.
Get somebody in the same room was calling your name and you did hear it.
[39:41] Unforeseen you’re a book over christmas yes could a product
yeah that’s that’s extreme focus and concentration and it’s very pleasurable right it means you really really interested in something on the other side of things are people with ADHD they’re sitting in their office.
[40:01] Reading a report of their footsteps outside your door and all the sudden there training fathers broken.
[40:08] I forget what it is that they were you built he will read a paragraph three four times before the guy because every single time something happens that breaks their concentration
select one of the problems and other problems they have issues with impulse beauty.
[40:25] This is the same thing the control circuit is not adequately housing desire circuit.
[40:33] Kids we see them cutting in line we see them grabbing toys from friends and adults with see them on interrupting other adults were having conversations they get an impulse and they act on it um,
they cannot suppress them because they got too much of a mean in the designer circuit and not enough to put me in the control circuit
having a lot of guilt and the desire circuit can be a real problem but they are good things associated with that one thing is that it makes you.
Sorry resolute very motivated and it also make u very creative i had a patient come in who was a successful serial entrepreneur he had arm started and sold five companies
um last company was awesome.
What’s the problem is that a lot of stress and he became depressed i came in first fresh and we also diagnosed adhd
i’m just completely incapable of organizing and she had to hire guys to keep firm on track yet the hiring guy to carry a cell phone when lose a guy to carry around his address book to make sure you wasn’t time for things.
[41:47] Add looking at the big picture we decided that we’re going to treat this depression.
[41:52] We will not treat his ADHD
because we were afraid that if we did that we will process some creativity.
[42:01] Add that was his lively hood anyways okay that was completely disorganized because fortunately he did well enough they could hire people with centrally acting external
help me control circuits and so we left that level of disability.
[42:17] Rock and port strikes warm weather.
Record a show before called the ADHD nation and the other was running shorts active adhd talked about project lead a of you so that url and everything abuse by students.
What are the things i thought about that boys you know when i do the shows that whining at both sides of the story is i feel you really did a great job of that in this park and you talk about the gifts of,
you’re a typical
turn off this order as the gifts if you create the right environment for them to be gifts and this is what you’re talking about here with steve but it always interesting as you mention your aunt escalator in the stairs.
The same thing here can happen if a child is dedicated to human off and they actually have a need for adhd medication,
you can enable the stairs to work effectively.
[43:07] Yes that’s right change you have ADHD or higher risk of developing substance use disorders addiction because of the im possibility.
It’s harder for them to control their behavior and so as a result of that
only on doctors and parents were little bit reluctant to treat them with ritalin and adderall because these are potentially addictive medications and the argument was
maybe we should give from
add a meeting speed to kids who are vulnerable to addictions what they found was absolutely fascinating in my opinion.
They found that the higher the dose of the stimulated and the earlier it was given to the patient’s life the less likely they were to become addicted and so it turns out that.
These are very dangerous drugs when they are used for recreational e or for some other purpose by people who are healthy
but when the used properly or under a doctor’s supervision for january adhd
that’s the opposite affect the reduce the risk of addiction rather than the increasing at let’s move on to my nesting creativity.
Are we gonna heard the line by line between madness and genius.
I’m you tell us both depend on don’t mean i’m going to the school of creativity little while but let’s start with mine is madness let’s
go back to the whole idea rewards what is the reward.
[44:36] Reward is something that has the potential to make your future better
make your life better it can be a donut it can be a glass of irish whiskey but can also be things.
Are more abstract so let me get example of your sitting at a bus stop waiting for the bus reading the newspaper there are no interesting articles in the paper you really bout sum
boring trade agreement you make you wait for the article all of a sudden you see that one of your classmates from high school is a negotiated.
When you see the name of your classmate from high school you can get help me
the subjective experience is almost done your gonna be a whole lot more interesting this article that you were before and the reason is that now it’s personal.
Add anything that’s personal.
Is it away form of rewards we called that’s aliens keep reading this article now you’re more interested you excited all the sudden imagine what happened if you saw your own name in this article you would get up
big push to go for me because it would be very personal and i would have a
big potential to influence your future wife by the way going back to addiction for one moment that social media so addictive you know use to be that way turn on the tv watch the network sent
we had nothing to do with us then we turn on the.
Computer go to twitter go to facebook go to instagram.
[46:03] Everything is about us and it still pounding head after dopeher me which is very addictive
you know what let’s turn it around out so saley something
that has to do with ourselves and ceiling things triggered open mean which makes is interested engaged and reward it unless your out let’s see that the circuit the release til på mean with malfunctioning
and it went off at
random an opportunity moments so you are watching tv and watching the news and there’s a segment about the secret service and then your silence don’t mean circuit goes off.
[46:46] What you bring to tell you you bring this ca to tell you that its about you.
What service is interested in investigating you and thats the basis paranoia and
when the order of the accessories it can actually lead to delusions i had a patient once you are told me that once he saw a stop sign he thought it was a sign from his mother telling him to stop thinking about women.
[47:17] Another patient i’m called me out and thanked me for the valentine
which is she will get up in the morning looked out the window and there was a red car parked across the street.
She realized that was assigned from me expressing my love for her this remote someone sense because it flip it around then.
[47:37] You don’t about psychosis and schizophrenia for example on how the stories of schizophrenia are always so summarize this idea of.
Get somebody to get me or it simply supplied against me or something i ask what band the meds.
Actually suppress domain and then the person who has the motivation to do much or very little motivation to get out of bed in the morning.
[48:01] That’s right to were getting better at this but the bed we have to treat schizophrenia and other psychotic illness is are great and perfect because we’ve got access token mean in this.
This circuit and we want to do is wanna bring it back down to normal levels.
Don’t have that level of control and so we end up feeling a sweet over suppress the desire circuit
and you get people where just not motivated nothing gives them pleasure.
I have no interest in doing anything and we’re all surprising the control circuit
and she’ll having problems,
atlantic and carrying out things reading and picking up strictly it’s a trade off is a training if they want to freedom cells
these psychotic symptoms the symptoms of mental illness
there’s got to except this level of disabilities that the medications themselves spring.
All the washington state board getting better the new medications.
Still not perfect there still not great but they’re a little bit better than the old notifications
moving onto the creativity mention the importance of mental models and white still for mean that helps is build mental models i don’t mean that helps break them apart and both requires to think about things that don’t currently exist,
which is what they mean is bringing to do.
[49:21] That’s right we we spoke about how the control circuit leads to imagination if u combine imagination with a desire that is going to prime the pump
creativity but what exactly creativity is.
Create a video is drawing connections between things that did not previously seem to be connected so i think that’s the most famous example
how’s a creative moment is the eureka moment that archimedes experienced in the bath most beautiful hollywood that the king wanted him to determine whether a crown with solid gold.
I filled with some other metal without cutting the crown open
i would need a few is measure the density of the crowd he needed to weigh it and calculate its for you
when it was very simple of course you was because it was this your regular shape,
and he’s struggled with this problem for a very long time until one day he got into a doctor of water.
Saw the level of the water rides and all of a sudden he realized the amount the water was rising up.
Which is exactly equal to was being displaced by the volume of his body.
[50:41] Already running around naked screaming eureka effect of female connection
between two things it seems just connected measuring volume.
And stepping into about dopeher me plays a role
add three channels that we tend to get into rockets we get in to have that we go through our day seeing the same things over and over again just wish we.
Basically stops it.
We start thinking we go onto autopilot but when we destroyed by something new.
By reward prediction error.
Let’s see that you walking to work you’re walking the same road you walked everyday for the past three years and all the sudden i knew.
[51:31] Bakery is opened upon the street and your gonna go and your gunna get alot handled you feel different.
More wide awake you feel more alert you feel excited it’s no longer the same old same old
when you see something new its an opportunity to reship the circuit in your brain it’s a learning opportunity you want to say right
the world is a is a slightly different place than i thought it was there is now a new bakery
work was revolutionary ancestors i found a grove of trees that produces fruit that i never knew about before
so what happens is essentially the circuit in your brain lucia,
soften up and they’re ready to be re wired they ready to make
new connections that have not been made before and that’s why don’t we meet dr creativity and that’s why if you want to become a more creative person one thing you want to do is feed your brain
what’s new experiences for example travel
go into the gallery talking to people you’ve never spoken to before trying out new things used things are going to loose enough go ahead bitch lol.
Circuits of the brain and create the opportunities for new connections.
[52:57] Your broke house me understand myself a good morning to write a weekly article and put upon medium linkedin.
[53:03] I am thinking allergies so when another helps me to understand.
Usually a complex concept very well and because i interviewed great people like you every week and varying subjects every week.
Are you make connections between them and often finding analogy that bring something else to life and i was really fascinated by who.
[53:23] Technologies have a huge rolling creativity some people say
that and allergies are fundamental to the way the human beings think we figured things out by comparing them to other things and pulling out the common allergies
what is the mean does this thing out strike
we have to have the thing in our hands to understand that we cannot understand the i should submit.
[53:51] No honestly helpful i just all patient today who has been taking up a lot of bad drugs and she’s paying the consequences and we talked about her brain healing
she’s an athlete in college and we spoke about injuries she experienced in the field what it was like healing
scaling back rub tease little bit and i was able to say feeling the brain is the same thing
and that allowed her to establish realistic expectations because he’s already done them before so she could find somewhere in your consciousness done.
I’m at beaumont still understand what you’re saying
yes she didn’t even want to take time off from work to get better because it’s like well its just my farts i dont need to worry about changing my farts and i explained to her now your brain is physical.
It’s made up of cells just like the tendency to you injured your ankle.
Help her to see it more clearly and it’s really interesting because of the things i found fascinating was oftentimes,
stuff like you mentioned the part smoking basement to have her example i don’t want to create people are often linked with.
[55:00] Drugs in some way or no recreational drugs are for example pot smoking and i found it fascinating what you said was because.
What you work
for example cannabis still is it prices or surprises dopeher mean and help you enjoy the here and now so that’s why you’re a bit more like life is great man and any thing because of mr price for a moment
yes that’s exactly what is the opposite of the cocaine addict to go go go never stay still
did marijuana smoker is like everything is fine just no reason to get up off the couch and you created people are notorious shipping alex your help with alcoholics inventor arcade alex
drugs usually come
on the downside of things you use when they start off their career they are highly productive and.
Do not use drugs because they know that drug screening interfere with your ability to execute on their.
Ideas um potentially your site says it you know just like you can
control wanting a donut you can control the creative idea you got have faith in your brain and patience and white fret karl wants people develop a reputation.
After creative work a lot of things to lose that patients they say i’m only as good as my last idea i need another one right now.
[56:28] Add since drug stimulate help me in that can be an appealing short term solution.
It’s exactly the same thing as people using.
Add raul to study for tests they’re taking the escalator rather than the stairs and as time goes on their ability to generate creative ideas spontaneously is going to go down and down.
Adults only drug no longer gonna work it just simply destroying their lives giving a creative ideas move on so it covered most of the concepts in the boat.
One of the ones that was fascinating any dedicate chapters this is a reservation that were saying in the world particularly the political level in here,
government confirm this also you say the fundamental obstacle to achieving harmony is not delivered brain is different from the conservative brand.
I’m not make the difficult for them to understand one another.
[57:23] Because politics is an adversary to game this lack of understanding leads to demonetization of the other side.
It’s pretty controversial approach a lot of people didn’t like the idea that we was saying that political ideology is at least in part a result of biology maybe even genetics.
What are stats for the affect on a single individual is probably pretty modest.
Defects in large groups of people is very durable and it times can be dramatic liberals tend to be more childish than they call themselves progressives,
ofreces about the future its about making things better than they are now it’s about accumulated
more things that’s where we conservatives on the other hand tend to be more conservative means maintaining
hey good enough good things we have inherited from our for bears keeping things the way they are now.
[58:26] Can we get reflected in the policy tender support progressive support policies that lead to a better tomorrow the support mandatory education city planning
support collecting taxes to give the poor people to make their lives better
where’s conservatives two hundred sport things like leave it to immigration.
Keep allow to make change our way of life law and order initiatives
and rather than supporting
taxes help the poor conservatives a much more likely to personally give to generate because that is a
relationship based form of helping rather than a policy thanks for helping and that’s more congenial here now personality.
U say all this means that god wont activities are sent lee documentary.
Pretty much everyone involved in politics open otherwise the code to get elected because their always talking about the future there are always painting a picture of the future,
what was fascinating looking back i open the individuals.
[59:35] You talk to me about you know how hyper sexuality for example in washington DC which is the capital of politics probably in the world.
[59:43] Ashley madison dot com say it’s the most premier plus or on faithful city in the world is one of the top three,
unfaithful cities in the world yeah that’s right ashley madison is a website design.
Who are married and want to have an extra marital affair
add vicky track of where people are.
[1:00:02] Add washington dc has the dubious honor of having the
the most active subscribers to this website you know politics is all about command and control from a distance and it still for me.
[1:00:17] It’s about controlling people to determine the future you want and doing it through power from a distance and that’s a little bit of a problem for conservatives
because you’re not gonna be interested in politics unless you’re dumb and you’re sherlock can’t get it unless you don’t ship because it requires so much to nasty so much sacrifice
you right now pleasures suggest spending time with friends and family
during the week politicians are debating there folding and on the weekends is gonna go back to their home districts and raise monday and so basically they get no time off at all england i think the divorce rates
among members of parliament is double or even more
dad of the nation as a whole politics is just not a good business to ban unless all you care about his ambition and success are you willing to sacrifice things like
happiness and human relationships.
When does the population and welcome to this novel people einstein even thinking of my people like steve jobs
often these people who are driven to change the world through your vision vision.
[1:01:36] Often struggle with inter personal relationships yes that’s right i think steve jobs hero of many people that he was a jerk.
[1:01:46] From the humidity of use key was terrible it was almost like blood since computing machine i think i want the books written about him we about.
Terrible treatment of his daughter people set the was very very hard to work west many geniuses are like that i think will einstein saying
that i feel enormous sense of caring for humanity it’s individual humans that i can’t stand.
[1:02:12] And that showed up man i mean these people are there benefits actress of humanity
take care a great deal about people in the abstract but in the concrete and the hearing now in the potty personal space they simply cannot abide them.
So the next part is we discuss their traits or genetic i found this absolutely mind blowing me said slight variations in jeans are cold hells.
Each persons collection of different along with the environment they grew open helps determine their unique personality.
One of the very ends of the gene is called the seventies or.
[1:02:49] People who have that seven or burien tend to be novelty seeking.
We have last transfer money to pursue whatever is new orleans unusual.
They can be impulsive exploratory fickle excited about quick tempered and extravagant.
On the other hand people won’t load novelty seeking personal relief are more likely to be reflected rigid loyal still slow tempered and frugal.
[1:03:11] No if i needed the segmentation for the whole thing is fishy hope the first of probably nails so this idea of knowing that seeking.
Wanted to push the boundaries of humanity and understand more driven by curiosity i found this fact that they call to be sure they are genetic
absolutely mind blowing you don’t jeans come in a variety of different
can you like call them flavors so we’ll have the gene that determines the color of your eyes.
I have a slightly different gene the people blue eyes which is different
green eyes and i need to call ali did the same jeans but they’re slightly different.
Give us our own individual characteristics
the same is true with jeans that control the way your brain produces and process dopeher me and sell their art.
[1:04:05] Ima li else that make people
mord ultimate energy to leave you if we can really get into that right now and somebody else that make people laugh so let’s talk about what,
open the person would look like well they look like different things depending on which is most active one we can say about all of them though.
And that is the time to focus on the future to the exclusion of their present.
Show is somebody still gorgeous because they have a very active desire circuit day maybe next,
baby constantly pleasure seeking out wine women and song as the saying goes there was one to go out to clubs meet people of the opposite sex drink alcohol and then maybe go get the pizza afterwards
always looking for more and more gratification.
[1:05:02] Now somebody else with adult personality like a type a work alcoholic
instead of going after more immediate pleasures.
Going after more long term things and more.
Add stroke thanks things like money a chief on
and that sort of thing and then we might look at a third open.
Carson not like artists or the adventure
this person still with your chick because she is focused on things that don’t exist she wants to bring into the world something that nobody has ever seen before and she was so obsessed with that she may not eat she will not sleep she change her clothes because she is actually driven
create this new thing
show if you have a wheels that ten to make government more active in your brain you’re going to be future focused
but there’s different ways to be future focus yeah nyuko relate human expiration from the time we were only twenty times in humans on the planet to the domaine else.
Let’s hear this because of the fascinating how those who migrated were the adventurous ones,
so therefore i would also like you to be pioneers to be adventurous and start up new businesses when they did get to the neurons not only perfect survival sake but for domains.
[1:06:24] We was being so very lucky to be alive we almost became extinct the reason the scientists know that is because when you look at the genetic variation from human to human there’s a lot less than you see and other animals
add what that means is that at some point in our history we swindle down to a very very small tribe of people.
[1:06:49] And so we are all descendants of the small group of people.
In order to avoid extension what are the best things you can do is spread out.
That way if there’s a drought or some other natural disaster in one part and that colonies wiped out
different parts of the world that can carry out the human race so leaving africa and spreading out all over the world
what is a very important thing for our early and stuff and it looks like played an important role
add a reason why when you go out
can you travel far enough the environment changes substantially the climate change the source of food and a change
the shelter may change and if you’ve got strong from italy that im fire pit you gonna be exploratory you gotta learn faster always gonna go out looking for new sources of reward
and that success is going to mean you’re going to have a better chance of surviving
add you all have a better chance of attracting mates and reproduce a.
[1:08:01] Add with fascinating is that if we look along
migration roots out of africa to the different parts of the world we see.
The longer the vibration route the more generations required to have
utilities for five in novel circumstances.
Rate of the percentage of the population that has been very active deals my friend not really fascinating because you say.
United states for example and spectacular double mentors he minutes between nineteen oh one to twenty thirteen.
View access receive forty percent of all nobel prizes awarded the highest of any country in the world and it got me thinking big time.
[1:08:45] Because i always suggest young people traveled so i’d like to like you doing.
I suggest people travel to experience the world because i believe the changes then then this got me thinking that actually perhaps that desire to travel is the new anyway and start chicken and egg problem.
[1:09:01] Yes that’s right you know we’re no longer experiencing the kind of migration we experienced the revolutionary ancestors experienced that people still move around the world and we call that immigration and if you think about chipotle.
Somebody was going to immigrate to the united states and that persons neighbor one decides to go one of them decides to stay
wouldn’t be surprising if we found that the one who decided to go ahead more.
Italy else than products for neighbor who decided to stay.
[1:09:36] And show overtime for united states is actually become enriched and energetic people and we see that in a number of different ways one thing is that
hi rachel bipolar disorder the united states which is an illness that if you are high levels of dopeher me you are a risk for.
Should i add.
[1:09:57] Good thing is that we also see a lot of creativity united states is famous for its entrepreneurial culture and as you pointed to help united states has received a disproportionate.
Number of nobel prizes and one just reportedly by immigrants we mention steve jobs immigrants.
Select jeff bezos is wild from american family its everywhere i”m this idea that it could be genetic is just mind blowing it faster than the other wonder.
Is it why it just feels to me that there is no urge in the world today oh yeah.
Create something different that we know that we would be exhausted the plant that we don’t know until damaged.
There’s an awakening of sorts across the world and i wanted this made me wonder.
Is the evolution visit the mine is waking up and we’ll get more dopamine and people are starting to push the boundaries of society because it started to break down and.
This ends may be a new beginning yes that’s right email there are problems with having.
[1:11:00] Drain the default when are we are a hundred dollar purse and bring it into the modern world and i mean it’s one of those problems because we’re hundred gather we pretty much always lived on the brink of extinction
answer your call ashlea pursuing more more food more productive partner’s more tools that was central to our survival
well most of us don’t live on the brink of extinction anymore it was still stuck with this primitive brain
and so we eat more than we should we eat shark more than we should we take drugs in a way that we should
we got rain and just consume consume consume and as you plan out we’re getting to the point where it may be a threat to the world.
Will you talk to him many many challenges and opportunities but open gives us.
What you dedicate a section of the boat to solutions and small changes we make and what we can hold.
[1:12:00] I’d love if you came with a quick overview of some of those me and the transmitters.
Work in opposition to one another,
what does it mean that can also operate and using an allergy i like to think of it ask the accelerator and the break on an automobile having these oppositional systems one makes the car go faster what makes the car go slower.
[1:12:26] Give this far more control
we had an accelerator alone then we see oppositional systems giving control in many many areas and so we got to learn to use both are here now transmitters and our dopeher me.
Switch the fulfillment and happiness show love this is one example don’t mean get things going
give us the energy to go out and find someone uses the courage to risk rejection and then once we get that person here now takes over building a long term
dang it relationship creativity is another i’m not talking about changing the world creativity,
ordinary creativity such as painting or knitting or woodworking would you still put me in to give a motivation to plan what is the weather making your actual hands litteraly
RE personal space in the here and now.
Make it real view the kinds of things that give us long lasting pleasure and satisfaction.
[1:13:32] They’re trying out a new when i went to high school
we have shot glass we would take time out from our data work with our hands to smell the saw dust too.
Make things that we will keep that spaced out because butter society really,
and the sizes dont fit me.
Working with things that don’t exist like bitch and lights and ideas financial instruments and cryptocurrency and blockchain and reel things
are the valley of the things that people with no education do people want their hands are blue collar workers and we kind of value them.
[1:14:12] That’s not a good way to go down our brains evolve to have balance and if you want to get the most out of them we gotta respect what we got
i actually of the book where can people find out more about your work to book it center.
Focus on amazon dot com with lots of great reviews up there and i got on website daniels lieberman dot com i want to rock the molecular more i was single chemical in your brain is love
sex and creativity determine the fate of the human race daniel GE lieberman MD thank you for joining us.
Text someone having me.